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https://www.parlia.com/o/abortion-ends-human-life

6 comments

For
The fact of the matter is, a fetus is life, it's got human DNA, and abortions end them. So as a matter of fact, this specific aspect of the abortion argument isn't actually up for discussion. Now, does abortion end a PERSON'S life? No. It doesn't have hopes and dreams. It doesn't have relationships. It doesn't have opinions. It can't even form lasting memories yet.
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Actually, fetuses have opinions, relationships and even have memories. Opinions-Studies have shown that fetus have certain preferences to food, by the time they reach only 15 to 16 weeks. According to an article from "The Guardian" it states ",foetuses will show their sugar appreciation by swallowing more amniotic fluid when it's sweet, and less when bitter" This clearly implies that they have the capability to like and dislike. Showing they are not only capable but in fact DO have opinions. More studies found that fetuses when exposed to garlic in the womb, were more likely to enjoy garlic later in their life. Source: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2014/apr/08/child-food-preferences-womb-pregnancy-foetus-taste-flavours Memories and Relationships- According to the National Library of Medicine, studies have been done to test the ability of fetus to recognize their mothers' voices. In this study they played tape recordings of the mother's voice and of a stranger. In the study it quotes "Fetal heart rate increased in response to the mother's voice and decreased in response to the stranger's;". Clearly, they have to remember what their mother voice sounds like, as well as they clearly have relationship with their mother if the sound of their voice soothes them. Other studies have shown that infants and fetus will prefer their mothers' voices to their fathers, and more studies have been done on the recognition of lullabies sang by mothers. Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12741744/ And the comment about hopes and dreams, doesn't really make sense, because infants lack that ability as well, but I think it's safe to assume you wouldn't want it to be legal to abort a 1-year-old infant. I have a question for anyone who wants to answer it. Can anyone tell me when personhood begins, that's consistent, doesn't take away the rights of infants and adults humans, and doesn't value animals over humans, and does discriminate people by size, level of development, environment, degree of dependency?
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For
ELW5y ago
I believe in the humanity of the foetus and the right to life but I also believe in the right to bodily autonomy. And, where there is conflict, I think the right to bodily autonomy should prevail. This is consistent with our practices regarding the donation of bodies and body parts, the harvesting and analysis of DNA, our participation in clinical trials and experiments, our practices related to first aid and so forth. You can’t force a person to lend their body.
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Arguing from the position of bodily autonomy is easily the most overrated way of trying to defend abortion. The issue is that the opposition believes it's a person. Let's assume this is actually true (it's not). WOW! The implications of that would be huge actually. As a matter of fact we CAN force people to lend their body. It's illegal to stop CPR once you have started. You're gonna get sued and you're gonna deserve it. If you walk into the court room like, "Hey! It's MY body and MY right to not continue CPR. Just because I started CPR doesn't mean I consent to following through with it". They're gonna be like, "lol that's nice." and throw the book at you. That's why this argument never works on people against abortion. It completely misses our opposition's point.
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ELW5y ago
No, as previously stated, the issue is whether the right to bodily autonomy takes precedence over the right to life. Because, if so, any debate about the humanity of the foetus is academic. Many pro-choice advocates, including me, do acknowledge the humanity of the foetus and support abortion anyway. Forced CPR is incomparable to forced pregnancy as it’s non-invasive and doesn’t compromise the interests of the person performing it.
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It's not invasive to legally force someone to work extremely hard at something for a long time for no pay? It "doesn't compromise the interests of the person performing it"? Um... speak for yourself. It's a medical emergency. It's a stressful period of time that most people only face a few times in their life. Some people literally get PTSD over stuff like this. We shouldn't just blow off a direct violation of someone's free will as irrelevant. My point wasn't that forced CPR is like... equitable to pregnancy (it's not). My point was that there ARE times where the stakes are high enough for the free will of 1 person to matter less. And if a fetus was literally a person the way you and I are people? Then yes. Pro life people would be on the righteous side, and something as petty as 9 months of your life, the permanent disfigurement of your body, and even risk of death outright may indeed be reasonably justified when the alternative is the guaranteed murder of an innocent person who has equal value to the mother. Which a fetus does not. Which is the point that needs to be focused on. I really can't stress enough, you will NEVER change anyone's mind if you keep appealing to autonomy, because pro-life don't see that as the issue. I guess you can keep trying to argue in this way, but you'll be preaching to the choir for your entire life.
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