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Against
Bethan_marsden5y ago
**TL; DR - To disregard the credibility of the attack on the Capitol in January 2021, is to ignore the extreme nature of polarization and partisanship as it exists in the United States today. January 6th is a day that will go down in American history as significant, and rightly so.**
• Fuelled by their belief that the November 2020 election was rigged, hundreds of armed, self-declared Trump supporters took it upon themselves to overturn the result. Characterised as a demonstration of violence in an [illegal attempt to obtain power](https://www.britannica.com/topic/collective-violence/Coups-rebellions-and-revolutions) I am in no doubt that the actions at the Capitol were indeed part of a credible coup attempt.
• There were several photographs and videos from that day but hitting me more than any other was the gleeful picture of [rioter Richard Barnett](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/capitol-mob-richard-barnett-derrick-evans-arrested) with his feet up on the desk of House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi. I mean it literally doesn’t get any closer than that. What would have happened if Pelosi happened to be in her office at that exact moment? Here in the UK in June of 2016, Labour MP Jo Cox was murdered by a right-wing extremist; her death sparked an important conversation about the _protection of elected officials_ in this country. We can’t ignore the threat posed during the Capitol riot.
• The incumbency of Donald Trump incited [hatred and division](https://www.newsweek.com/hate-crimes-under-trump-surged-nearly-20-percent-says-fbi-report-1547870) like no President before him. With polarization becoming so unbelievably extreme in America, both sides of the aisle have shifted the tone of their rhetoric - but only one side has resorted to this level of violence. The attempted coup at the Capitol, was a _deliberate and orchestrated attack_ with the sole intent of returning Trump to power. This is not how democracy works. This was a credible coup attempt.
• _5 people died_ in the riot. This should be enough to convince you that the threat was credible. The actions of a politically motivated gaggle of rioters, caused people to lose their lives and that is credible. To suggest otherwise, is to underestimate the threat posed by the extreme-right wing of America.
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Nsoper194y ago
You rightly show how it was an awful tragedy, but nothing to demonstrate that it was a "credible coup attempt".
The storming of the capital had little in common with successful coups that have taken place over other governments. The key thing which enables a coup in pretty much all instances is military control. The nutcases who stormed the Capitol didn't have control over the US Army and hence there was really no credible threat.
They could have caused more damage than they did but they were never close to gaining executive control of the USA
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Bethan_marsden4y ago
I strongly disagree. I never said it was a successful coup attempt, I said it was a credible coup attempt. The insurrectionists had the intention of overturning the events of the election and people died as a result. I think it's perfectly legitimate to view this as a credible coup attempt. There was a documentary recently on the events of Jan 6th 2021; after having watched it, I'd find it very difficult to view the attack as anything other than a credible coup attempt.
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Nsoper194y ago
It was a riot/protest that got seriously out of hand. How would storming the capitol even be a coup? It's the legislative branch of government not executive. They would need to take control of the white house and pentagon to be a meaningful coup, with the backing of the military. It doesn't resemble a coup in any real sense. Calling it an insurection is giving those idiots far to much credit. It wasn't successful or credible. People dying makes it tragic but not a coup.
You got a lot of beef with Trump supporters and that's fine, but it doesn't make it a coup.
Take a look at this list of coups and see what they all have in common. Notice also how the Capitol riot is absent.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coups_and_coup_attempts
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Commentary
JoiFoote15y ago
**Does the storming of the Capitol satisfy the conditions that define a coup?’**
- On the 6th January 2021 a mass of Trump supporters stormed The United States Capitol. This was in response to his defeat in the 2020 presidential election in which Trump lost to Joe Biden and the democratic party.
- The definition of a coup, [more formally known as a Coup d'état]( https://www.britannica.com/topic/coup-detat) is ‘the sudden, violent overthrow of an existing government by a small group.’ Opinions however vary on whether this was a credible coup attempt.
- [‘The Coup D’etat Project at the University of Illinois’ Cline Center for Democracy has determined that the storming of the U.S. Capitol qualifies as an attempted coup.’]( https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/02/02/was-the-storming-of-the-capitol-a-coup-academic-group-now-says-yes-politifact/)
After first claiming the events on the 6th January did not satisfy what they deemed to be a coup. A team of 6 researchers came together to overturn that decision in that the storming of the capitol included three broad characteristics of a coup. Such characteristics are as follows:
‘one or more persons posed a credible threat to the power of the legislative branch to determine national policy’.
'Second, the attackers were trying to change who controls the government.'
'And third, the assault on the Capitol included at least some elements of advance organization'.
- Other opinions however contend that whilst what we saw was [vioent and shocking, it was not a coup.]( https://theconversation.com/was-it-a-coup-no-but-siege-on-us-capitol-was-the-election-violence-of-a-fragile-democracy-152803)
The reason for this being that it does not meet the criteria to what defines a coup. They provide an alternative criterion for what they deem to be a coup, these criteria being:
1) Are the perpetrator's agents of the state, such as military officials or rogue governmental officials?
2) Is the target of the insurrection the chief executive of the government?
3) Do the plotters use illegal and unconstitutional methods to seize executive power?
The reason why they believe this was not a coup is that it does not satisfy all the first conditions. In that those involved in the storming of the capital were civilians as opposed to military and governmental officials.
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