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6 comments
Against
based_person5y ago
You can believe that you're doomed to live a miserable life of poverty;
or you can believe that with enough intelligent planning, self-investment, and hard work, you will succeed.
Either way, you're going to be right.
But it's not fate.
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Against
stealthbeast5y ago
What even is fate? A predetermined point that we're working towards? Sure, we live in a deterministic universe, but that doesn't mean that "fate" in the magical sense of the word is a reasonable proposition.
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Mixed
eleanorburleigh5y ago
**Fate - thought of as the development of events in a way that is out of the individual's control - plays a part in our lives. But the human brain is an incredible and complex thing, and it is capable of overriding predisposition.**
- Fate is sometimes thought of as being dictated by a supernatural power. But the way I'm thinking of it is as more [atheistic predeterminism] (https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/4888/do-we-have-free-will-the-atheist-case-for-determinism).
- From an atheist perspective, the [development of the human brain] (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234146/) is a physical process, not imbued with any spiritual essence. [People will often act according to their needs/desires/instincts] (https://hbr.org/1998/07/how-hardwired-is-human-behavior), which are informed in large part by their biological natures. So in this sense, in a decision-making scenario, the individual's predisposed nature will make one outcome more likely than others.
- However - I wouldn't say that this idea of fate 'determines' our lives. For one thing, a completely fated existence puts any kind of human responsibility in a bind. We've developed civilisations and justice systems that counter what might be a biological predisposition to kill or hurt. It is still the responsibility of the individual within the social system to resist these instincts.
- The human brain and its rationality/mental functioning is an incredible and complex thing. That we believe we have free will makes possible the idea that humans are able to resist biologically 'fated' choices.
- In this case - our lives may be partially predetermined. Perhaps to the extent that our natural needs/desires/instincts adhere to [modern-day] (https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-human-beast/201509/are-humans-adapted-modern-life) civilisation and social cohesion.
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Against
IXH8265y ago
**fate is a comforting lie we put too much trust in.**
- this line of thinking is a result of an [external locus of control](https://www.edglossary.org/locus-of-control/) whereby individuals blame misfortune or life circumstances on outside factors and assume they have no control.
- we control more than we think we do, our thoughts drive our actions and our actions are what make us who we are and get us to the place in life we're at.
- life isn't about passively waiting to find yourself because nothing is destined or certain, you create your reality and create yourself. you have to be an active participant in your life, not rely on fate.
- this thought process rids the individual of autonomy as they may feel like despite their best efforts they cannot prevent or change bad situations. it can drain someone and make them feel powerless to think they cannot shape their own life when in reality we are the ones who steer ourselves onto the path we aspire to.
- [fate is what puts opportunities in front of us but our destiny is ultimately determined by our decisions.](https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/natasha-koifman/decisions-determine-destiny_b_7999966.html)
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Against
taylor233y ago
Fate is the same as a coincidence - you simply cannot predict fate, nor expect it
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Mixed
Debate_4_fun9813y ago
Fate I would define, as a predetermined destination or event, that a person is unable to prevent or avoid, because it overrides our personal ability to choose otherwise.
Fate may be specific in time, place or may just mention an event. e.g "On the 15th of November 2024, at 9:30am, you will become the CEO of the company you work for"
Or your fate could be less time specific: "One day you will become the head of the company you now work for."
The last example might be a prediction based on observable facts, such as your very good at your job and you want to progress as high as you can go in your career. However, if you didn't want to progress in your career, and planned to stay were you were on the career ladder, then the prediction, would then become a matter of someone saying that it your fate to become the head of your company, regardless of what you intend.
Another example of this is, say, a prediction from a fortune teller that someone will die at a certain date, at certain time in a certain place and despite that person's best conscious effort, they pass away in that place and at the time and the date predicted. Then we would say, they were "fated" to do so.
As can be understood by the above examples, "Fate" is something that is external to our intent, but happens anyway. It seems, if the above fortune teller example were to happen, that our intelligence, creativity, efforts and overall choices do not govern us, but instead "something outside"
At first thinking, it seems fate as defined above, is very unlikely to be governing our lives; it seems a ridiculous proposition.
But where as our intelligence, choices, chosen direction and efforts, seem individually us, what about our genetic code? Do we have any choice about this? Our genetic code has been passed on to us by millions of years of evolution. Is it part of our individuality? Do we make choices from within the framework that it gives us? Or do we have individuality beyond it, despite having never created our genetic code?
My point is that there are numerous accounts of identical twins having weird sychronicities in their choices, despite the fact they have never met. They have the same genetic code and this seems to govern choices, we think of as being governed by the individual.
In an article published in the American Psychological Association in January 2015, called "A double life" psychologist Nancy Segal, mentions 2 identical twins, that have been reared apart. (Been raised seperately, the twins in the study, have grown up sometimes with no knowledge of each other's lives.
One set
were given the same name: Jim.
They also:
did the same job ( sheriff's deputies),
both drove chevy's,
had first wives named Linda and second wifes named Betty,
both chain smoked
but had been seperated at birth and had never met until aged 39!!"
The study she quoted from was the Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart (google it for more information.) The study noted genes strongly influence aspects of our personality, intelligence and other traits that had long been thought to be mainly shaped by environment.
My point is if choices and personality traits which we ascribe to our individuality, may well be down to our genes (even to the point of our first and second partners names) then perhaps this notion of fate is not so ridiculous as maybe first thought.
Maybe our individuality is more an illusion and we are more like "gene machines" If so, we are living in a world of other (people) who are also "gene machines". Is it then so ridiculous to think of us having a fate, that is beyond our ability to control? Are we living in a near choice free, gene mechanised reality?
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