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17 comments
Guns kill people = no, they do not!! 😂
Some people with guns kill people.
In a word - yes. A gun itself can't commit murder, someone has to be behind the trigger. But the power of the weapon used is what determines the fatality of an attack.
This statement poses opposition to the often-touted slogan, 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people'. And - yes, a person does have to pull the trigger, but if they didn't have access to such a potentially lethal weapon, they couldn't so easily carry out murders/suicides/sprees. Way back [in 1972] (https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3591&context=uclrev), a law professor carried out a study that revealed that "serious knife assaults are similar to shootings in many respects, including apparent determination to kill/injure, yet gun assaults have a much higher case fatality rate."
A more recent [2018 study] (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2688536) had similar findings - and it also directly connected the fatality of attacks with the calibre of the weapon used. The [statistics] (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/16/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/) also support this conclusion - 3/4 of murders in the US in 2017 involved a firearm and so did about 1/2 of suicides in the same year.
There's a helpful example of how guns do make the difference between life and death [in this article] (https://medium.com/@mshammas/its-time-to-retire-the-guns-don-t-kill-people-people-kill-people-argument-60d91889f806#id_token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6Ijc0MjE3YjhkYWRiYjM2NTc4MzU4MGY5ZTkyNDg3ZDcwMWNkMzhmZTYiLCJ0eXAiOiJKV1QifQ.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.G77c0djouj2vO91WmjaNFGZ2edfrKIMMY0E2vWMzlxre38fv5ustoN-1v_dL5vfR9xcbHLUpAdrA5cqEF_S_mOr83S3ULotjExFIqW9dCr-x1c8BLkNAUig_CBJL6HiVcATqrBSwQxHgYVAdyXNnzutT_CSx6J_D897ic90lTrGr-ymJ-4IV1Al96c6a7qafG5aQEJG_xYvs--CHcgJVWLG4ulRymWT78ZLk-WMSjenR2EZbZvP9BonFHcjpgxOiI8kLILmuhI2t07IRCO3kaCZy31s7jKqBzzGYruLnvullV0m0yIdEmYbLgq9I83n6uBLCXNpPWN4ctrTfcPftew) - it compares the 2013 Sandy Hook school shooting to a knife attack that took place in a Chinese school just hours before. While the Sandy Hook shooter killed 20 children and 6 adults, the Chinese man stabbed 22 children, but none of them died.
it just strikes me how much the world has changed in the short time since this comment was posted. (think agentic ai, robots etc)
Criminals kill people, sometimes they use guns. Guns do nothing by themselves.
Not certain what the meaning behind this is. It's obvious that guns are a method of killing, but that doesn't mean guns inherently kill people. There's data on the defensive use of guns, yet the statement is never 'guns save people'. Moreover, we're seeing more attacks made through other means showing that it's the people and the intent that really matters.
So do guns kill people? Yes, but does banning guns stop killings?
"So do guns kill people? Yes,"
I couldn't disagree more. Guns are inanimate objects. Guns can be used in the commission of murder, but guns don't kill people under their own volition. As you have noted, there are plenty of other means to kill. In the last year murderers have incinerated their victims, drown them, strangled them with pants... Do we say fire kills people? Water? Pants? Of course not, it's an absurd talking point that has been accepted by the general public.
A lot of the argument seems to be a more philosophical one, the idea that because guns aren't sentient that they can't kill. They are a tool for killing, they do the damage, they are the weapons that propel small metal pellets towards people and cause damage.
If someone was at the beach and got killed by a chunk of rock falling off a cliff, what would you say killed them? If you say the rock that fell off the cliff then that equates to the bullet, if you say the cliff killed him then that equates to the gun. But if you were to say the sea killed him then that would equate to the person pulling the trigger, but I bet damn near nobody would blame the sea for eroding the cliff...
That doesn't make any sense, the chain of logic could extend so far away, where do you draw the line? Does the sea cause the erosion or the salt in the sea? Or the force of the waves? Is it the moon that caused that? Did someone die because the moon killed them?
Murder requires intent, nobody would say the sea murdered the guy either. If a man kills someone with a knife, is it the knife that kills them or the guy? What about if he bludgeons them with a rock, was it the rock or the guy? Guns are no different, they're just designed for that specific use. Nobody ever says 'gun kills many' they'd say 'shooter kills many'.
But by that very same logic, if you way that the moon kills people then you may be able to compare that to the electrical impulses in someone's brain and say that electricity killed them. Murder does require intent, but you killed them with the gun. If you stood there and started moving your finger without holding a gun then the person doesn't die so the gun clearly plays a crucial part in the murder.
And if you tried thrusting the edge of your fist into someone's stomach you won't stab them without a knife, what's your point? Are you blaming the cliff or the moon? Are you blaming the gun or the electrical impulses? It's a double standard if you choose one over the other
Your cliff analogy is poorly made. More accurately, the cliff would be the gun and the rock would be the bullet. In order for the situations to be comparable; either there is no human interaction and the gun would have to go off all by itself, or there is human interaction and someone is standing on top of the cliff throwing the rock down on the person below.
Guns doesn't kill people, people does and take away the guns in the case of the United States and your second amendment and I'll guarantee that you'll see the same spike in stabbings and other way of kill other people as we have seen in for example the United Kingdom.
Guns save life and this is a right that I wish was a human right.
Right, but would stabbing have the same effect as guns? No. Guns are much more effective at what they do; they can not be compared to knives or daggers. With guns, u use the trigger and immediately put everyone's life in danger. Sure, guns can protect and help, but they are a dangerous tool; that is why better gun laws should be in place to know who can wield a gun and who can not. Late reply, but oh well
Why does the total vote percentage NOT equal 100%.
Bogus BULL
We're trying to debate ideas here, not to win the argument but to help us understand the other side.
If you don't understand someone's argument, the fault is likely with you, not with them!
America needs better gun laws.
Guns do not kill people themselves, it's people killing people. You can kill a person with a cheap scissors too but you don't hear anyone complaining about that. Put yourselves in the shoes of a criminal who wants to kill someone and think for a moment, you are going to see it's not that really difficult to do so in a world without guns either. But we live in a world with guns, so the good people would need guns to defend themselves and their family against the bad guys with (or without) guns.
Even if every form of firearms were banned around the world, it wouldn't be so hard to find a gun in some illegal way. I live in a country like that. Restrictions doesn't do any help to decrease gun related crime numbers, but make us individuals, who have no interest in crime, more difficult to defend ourselves properly.
Make the case or invite a friend to comment!