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msiacotos5y ago
It makes sense for articles of impeachment to be served by the House of Representatives, but the actual determination of illegality/legality of actions should be determined by legal experts i.e. judges and not senators who may have conflicting interests.
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ellikara915y ago
Interesting point! Why do you think this should be the case?
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msiacotos5y ago
I think politicians have specific goals and motives. Some claim that they are legitimized because they are elected, but Senators serve more interests than those of their constituents; namely reelection and interest groups.
When trying to decide what is good for America politicians are inherently short sighted whereas judges continually weigh the impact precedent would create.
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Against
ywang5y ago
The second acquittal of former President Donald Trump represents a disturbing moment for U.S. politics. Despite significant evidence, 43 GOP senators shielded the former President from conviction. However, the judicial system does not constitute a viable alternative for the impeachment process. Involving the court system would have significant ramifications for the separation of powers.
A sitting President enjoys extensive immunity from civil suits. In *Nixon v. Fitzgerald*, the Supreme Court entitles the President with “absolute immunity… functionally mandated incident of the President’s unique office, rooted in the constitutional tradition of the separation of powers and supported by our history." [1]. In two memos, the U.S. Justice Department reached the same conclusion. The Justice Department believed that civil indictments could interfere with the President’s ability to perform his duty as the executive officer of the United States. This interference would constitute a violation of the separation of powers. [2] A court-oriented impeachment process can damage that immunity.
The judicial system does not have the practical tool for presidential impeachment. While the process adopts legal vocabularies, impeachment differs significantly from the typical court cases. It does not have to follow established procedures. Its standard for conviction differs from that adopted by the court. It asks a fundamentally political question: should the President be removed from office? The judicial system must then follow the political question doctrine asserted in *Baker v. Carr*. The doctrine bars the judiciary from engaging in issues which it lacks the “discoverable and manageable standards for resolving” and which is assigned to “a coordinate political department”. Regrettably, the doctrine leaves the job only to the Senate. [3]
Furthermore, a court-mandated impeachment can be undemocratic. The presidency represents the most important and only national election in the U.S, with no alternatives. A grand jury impeachment allows a small, non-elected group to cancel the votes of millions. “Voters, not lawyers, choose the President.” wrote Judge Stephanos Bibas. [4] The phrase rejects one of Trump’s legal attempts to undo the 2020 election in Pennsylvania. It should also suffice to reject the notion of a court-oriented impeachment.
These doctrines and procedures may seem trivial compared to the injustice of the second Trump acquittal. They are not. The United States judicial system functions on precedents. Having a court decides impeachment might open the door to further erosion of important principles, chief among them the separation of powers. If allowed to cumulate, the erosion can cause significant chaos for U.S. politics with far reaching consequences beyond the Trump era.
[1]. Nixon v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 731 (1982)
[2]. Moss, Randolph. 2000. "A Sitting President's Amenability To Indictment And Presidential Prosecution". U.S. Department of Justice. https://www.justice.gov/file/19351/download.
[3]. Baker v. Carr, 369 U.S. 186 (1962)
[4]. Donald Trump For President, Inc et al v. Secretary Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, 2020 3d Cir.
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ywang5y ago
I stand by my conclusion that judicial involvement in the impeachment process is unconstitutional and problematic, despite all the flaws of the Senate.
That said, my understanding of U.S. law is shallow at best. I have no doubt that I have misrepresented some of the complicated legal issues in this opinion. However, I believe the general conclusion is accurate.
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msiacotos5y ago
Yes I see where you are drawing your argument from. But I still find it problematic that politicians are deciding the legality/illegality of a sitting president's behavior. We leave the determination for the fitness of office to 1) officials that have agendas and, while elected, serve their own interests as well as the interests of interest groups and 2) we are depending on norms of appropriate behavior to convict presidents (the idea that senators would convict a president based on principles)
If a court were to determine legality they would be less beholden to political agendas and actually be able to determine the heinousness of the President's actions.
At the end of the day its not important whether or not this kind of thing would be unconstitutional but if it is the right step to make to preserve American democracy. We have to be more dynamic as a country and not continually restricted to old principles and documents.
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ywang5y ago
I am not certain a court has the ability at all to determine an impeachment. There is no standard of review for this kind of process in the court system. Impeachment differs significantly from normal crimes. Technically, the U.S. Senate can impeach the President for acts not deemed crimes. The court's high standard of review can make convictions even harder than the politicized U.S. Senate.
However, suppose we can pass an amendment to change that and allow the court to get involved. I am not sure how this will impact the legal system. Like many other important laws, this kind of change will likely have unexpected implications. Specifically, it can damage the political question doctrine and allows court to get more involved in politics. Considering that federal judges are appointed and not elected, that involvement definitely seems unconstitutional.
Then again I can be wrong (not a law student). Maybe there is a way to amend the process without unintended consequences. However, there are still many realistic problems with the idea. Do we allow this to go through the court system like all other cases? I can think of two district court judges in Texas that would likely find an excuse to impeach Biden right now had such an amendment passed. Should we allow the Supreme Court to do it? That could become extremely dangerous. The Supreme Court tries very hard to avoid blatant partisanship to preserve public trust in the institution. Impeachment involvement will significantly harm that trust and damage the rule of law in the U.S.
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msiacotos5y ago
I don't see how a senate trial is less partisan than a court hearing might be. And there aren't procedures in place for the Supreme Court to try a President but I argue that it *should*. And it is subject to checks and balances in place because *Supreme Court* justices are appointed by elected officials. I think there is significantly more trust in the Supreme Court than there is in congress at the moment and a trial in the Courts could restore some trust in the government as a whole by more thoroughly holding officials in office accountable.
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