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5 comments
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JenReneeGilley5y ago
**TL;DR -- Religion is used as an excuse to to push agendas, oppress people, judge others, and conquer/take what doesn't belong to someone.**
Not quite sure why the "S" is capitalized here, but I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in.
Organized religion isn't about God, or worship, or doing good in the world. It's about pushing forward agendas, judging others (often unfairly), and having a pedestal to stand on so one can say "I'm better than you."
I'm not an overly religious person, but I do believe in God. I've floated away from religion because of all the hypocrisy in every church I've ever been in. I don't even believe in the Bible as much more than a historical text written mostly by priveleged men with, you guessed it, their own views and agendas to push. It's not very humanitarian, it's sexist, classist, racist, and it contradicts itself often. I can't believe in a God who would put it in someone's head to write that tripe.
But I digress. The church I grew up in preached equality, tolerance, and brotherly love. But when a group of Hispanics came asking for a quiet space to worship in Spanish, they were allowed to come in, but then quickly forced back out again by racist old white people who claimed that they were causing trouble, when their presence was barely a whisper. It was complete and utter BS.
Churches and governments use God as a reason to start wars and take what isn't theirs all the time (think the Crusades and Manifest Destiny).
Religion is as far separated from God and what is sacred and holy as water is from oil.
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Mixed
Laura5y ago
**Religion has always been flawed, but it also puts us in touch with the sacred.**
- I’m not sure that religion has ‘lost touch’ with the sacred. Rather that it has always been flawed and made up of imperfect human beings. Religion and God are not, and never have been the same thing.
- Organised religion has been responsible for many terrible things across history. Aside from religiously motivated conflict, child sexual abuse is a huge problem [in religious communities especially](https://www.ualberta.ca/folio/2020/08/researchers-reveal-patterns-of-sexual-abuse-in-religious-settings.html), because of the authority structures which exist within them.
- Religion also makes some people more self-assured and less accepting of other's lifestyles. Many people see a religious identity as red flag, particularly LGBTQ+ people who have been treated badly. [One study even suggests that children from religious backgrounds are more judgemental.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/does-religion-make-us-wor_b_8584760)
- However, I think it is impossible to get in touch with the sacred without using religion, or something very like it, as a vehicle. Many non-religious people agree that structure, discipline, use of intellect, meditation, and community (basically, the components of religion) are all needed to stay in touch with what is good and sacred.
- From a catholic perspective, it is clear that we need organised religion to stay in touch with the sacred. Jesus directly [told Peter to establish the church](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016%3A18&version=NIV) We also receive grace through [sacraments in the church](https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zh4f3k7/revision/1). Luke chapter 4 also says that Jesus himself made religious practice a priority as he would go to the temple on the sabbath, ['as was his custom'](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%204%3A16&version=NIV).
- I suspect that many other religions share a similar perspective. Religion has always been very flawed, but it is also part of how we stay in touch with the sacred.
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mistercoisito5y ago
• The Sacred is a very infinite, abstract concept, which extends beyond human comprehension.
•Humans use symbols and rituals to connect with the Sacred.
•Upon organizing, humans start to use symbols and rituais to maintain order, hierarchy and power, whilst justifying it as if pertaining to the Sacred.
•Humans will then substitute the indirect, mysterious experience with the Sacred, the soul and the universe, for direct, materialistic experiences with symbols and rituals themselves.
•Humans will then start equating symbols/rituals to the Sacred, while losing touch with what symbols/rituals originally represent.
•Humans will ultimately diminish the Sacred to its metaphors and attribute material qualities to the Sacred.
•Examples
- refer to god is Father or Him - therefore implying it being male, something that doesn't make sense if you're not a biological or social creature
- God has a plan, there's such a thing as "the word of god" - clearly devices invented by humans that would have no meaning, consequence of use for a divine infinite force that created/is all.
- there is good and evil - concepts of value invented by humans that only fit our material reality and reduce the infinitude of the Sacred
• Ultimately humans will use organized symbolic systems to justify their biases and refute anything that challenges their world views, resulting in the atrocities committed by organized religion as we can see throughout history.
•I argue that true spirituality can only arise from challenging the reduction of the Sacred to material metaphors and achieving a state in which a relationship with something immaterial, incomprehensible can be experienced by self discovery, without the need of the certainty created by organized symbolic systems. This is, ultimately, what faith entails.
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Mixed
vincenthan20095y ago
**The degree to which religion, or, in general, spirituality, is "organized" has no correlation with how connected it is with the Sacred. Whether it is a large church with a highly organized ecclesiastical system or a small family prayer meeting, both have equal distance with the Sacred.**
Nobody, I suppose, may look upon St. Peter's Basilica, or any corner of the Vatican City, without awe over its luxurious and elaborate architectural style. The blend of Christian and humanist, Renaissance elements certainly is striking to the eye. The human elements of the Roman Catholic Church may naturally make us wonder whether organized religion has lost touch with the sacred. Can't a small Friday prayer meeting group accomplish the same goal? Can't a group of nondenominational Christians gathering together in prayer celebrate their faith equally as well?
Whether it is a Catholic attending mass at a large cathedral or a protestant singing worship songs at his own house, do they not have the same goal in mind — to connect with the Sacred? Does the secular architecture of that cathedral diminish the faith of the Catholic?
Same for other religions: be it muslims on an elaborate pilgrimage to Mecca or a sufi muslim performing _Dhikr_, are they not equally pious in their devotion to Allah?
Whether faith is in touch with the Sacred is not dependent on the degree to which that faith is organized, but the hearts of the believer.
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