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https://www.parlia.com/o/there-are-only-2-genders

13 comments

Against
**TL;DR Gender is infinite** Gender is a concept that we use to interpret who we and other people are. It is a social construct that relates characteristics, behaviours, and societal roles to labels based on a binary of the masculine and feminine. At birth, we are usually assigned gender in correspondence to our biological sex. Because most ([but not all]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_5l2fwWGco&ab_channel=them)) people fall into two sex categories, male or female, in Western societies it has been presumed that there are only two genders. However, just because historically we have understood gender through binary terms does not mean that this is the extent of gender. Many people understand and experience gender [outside of the traditional binary]( https://www.glaad.org/amp/9-young-people-explain-what-being-non-binary-means-them). In the past 20 years, we have created new terms to better describe different gender experiences such as [non-binary]( https://www.apadivisions.org/division-44/resources/advocacy/non-binary-facts.pdf), which is often used as an umbrella term for gender identities that are not solely male or female. There are now many terms for different gender experiences, such as genderqueer, bigender, and agender. Gender is ultimately [self-defined](https://www.youngstonewall.org.uk/lgbtq-info/gender-identity). You form your gender identity from how you _feel_; from your innate sense of self, your experiences, and your interactions with society. Therefore, gender is not something that should be assessed or prescribed by others – as part of identity, it can only be assessed by the individual. As many people identify with genders other than male or female, or without gender entirely, there are more than two genders. As we all experience gender uniquely, there is potentially an infinite number of genders and ways of experiencing gender.
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Commentary
lcgomez5y ago
This is a very simple analysis. There are only two distinct biological genders. As with the rest of our biology, some mutations are bound to occur in nature by virtue of biology itself. These mutations do not represent new genders (or a new species with 6 fingers in one foot, for that matter) but are strictly mutations. There are, on the other hand, many and varied SEXUAL PREFERENCES in humans. The most prevalent being heterosexuality, second would be homosexuality and so on. We might have novel sexual preferences appearing and others disappearing by virtue of society, learning and environment, as well as biological or personality causes. These must no be confused as genders, but regarded and respected as preferences. These preferences might be ample, surpassing chosen sexual behaviors, and including identity and "look and feel" behaviors. All of these are, by the way, learned.
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Turi5y ago
The big split is between gender and sex (not sexuality), I think. - Sex: what you're calling 'Biological Gender' - Gender: the social construct that @freyaehope describes above. Sexuality is a whole other question.
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lcgomez5y ago
Gender existed first as a gramatical differentiation meaning "kind" or "type". And sex was a form of "type" or "kind" in species with sexual reproduction (as opposed to asexual reproduction) and the word gender was used to mean sex, in the reproductive way. Consequently, gender was indeed, binary for humans in the original meaning of the word "gender". The word gender has evolved to include different definitions, one of which is described by @freyaehope, a social construct. If we take the word gender to have this new meaning (similar to the personality meaning), then of course, there are many genders. The argument should not be semantic, I agree. Most people that "do not accept many genders" are not accepting the semantic meaning equalizing gender with sex (reproductive, biological sex). If we used another word, I think the argument would arise more freely and be accepted widely. I used sexual preference, for example. But any word could help us close the bridge. The importance of the word should not be above the importance of the concept? If the original questions was worded: Are there different sexual preferences? or even more ample: Are there many different personalities and ways of thinking and acting in societies, sexually and otherwise? I think 100% will agree there are.
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For
You used the word "gender," so I'm assuming you're referring to social roles seen as "masculine" or "feminine" -- what I'd call sexist stereotypes -- rather than biological sex. Either way there are only two, so I strongly agree with this, of course. Some may disagree, but "aerogender" and "deergender," for example, only exist online and nowhere as a social role in society, and anyone would have a hard time convincing me otherwise.
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Then I challenge you to seek out the Guavedoche of the Dominican Republic and read up on a 5alpha reductase mutation that causes at birth girls to transform into boys at puberty.
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they aren't girls at birth, they're boys with undermasculinized genitalia until testosterone kicks in at puberty. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCBQIpg5yLs
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Against
Without first defining the scope of the word "gender" we will forever slide down a point counter-point semantic road to existentialist hell. If we are speaking of chromosomal at birth presentation of biological function and anatomy, well, then its a bell curve. If we are instead talking about a complex social construct that includes at birth biology, developing brain and mental preferences on association identity, sexual preferences, then we are talking about a 5th dimentional bell curve of which we haven't fully studied or identified all the subtexts and nuances to choose from. The question is problematic in its scope. Let's consider the 5 alpha reductase mutation It allows an at birth chromosomal male to appear as a biological female at birth through puberty. But once puberty begins the anatomy shifts and the person changes into a male. This natural transgender transformation shows just one example of how we cannot assume only 2 genders exist, but must instead be open to the expression of both biological and preferential identities of everyone.
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i just linked a video explaining 5ARD above, but it's important to know that there are still only 2 sexes -- reproductive roles -- in all multicellular life. again, if you're using gender as a synonym of sex rather than to refer to "masculinity" and "femininity" -- which only humans experience -- then i am for this statement, because a third gamete has never been found. either a species is isogamic -- like mushrooms -- or anisogamic -- like humans. anisogamic species are either hermaphroditic -- like slugs and clownfish -- or gonocchoric -- like humans. but even hermaphroditic species have only two sexes, just bundled in one body. again, no third gamete -- no third reproductive role, no third sex -- has yet been proven to exist, and anybody that can prove the existence of a third gamete is guaranteed a nobel prize. even if we talk about social roles and sex stereotypes, there are only two of these, since there are only two sexes. all third "genders" have always been reserved for gender-nonconforming men and women, but they still knew what sex they were. there are no female hijras, for example. FerociouslySteph identifies as deergender, but that doesn't exist as a social role and is complete nonsense.
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Okay from your statement it is clear you don't have enough information to make sense of how complex cellular reproduction and asexual reproduction occur in nature. There are multi-cellular organisms that can reproduce both sexually AND asexually via budding, cloning, and species of animals that can literally change sexes in adulthood. Your statement that only male and female gamete reproduction is all that exists in nature is just incorrect.
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Turi5y ago
Doc, I feel there's a hint of a personal attack here? Please remember that we're all working together - to build out the best versions of the arguments we can. Arguing online is SO fraught because it's so hard to gauge or trust people's intentions. Our starting point, for every member of the community, is that we're all sincere, and all committed to the same goal: helping us understand all sides of the issue. I put together a [One-Pager](https://www.parlia.com/article/keeping-it-civil) on how to run happy conversations. Please also put suggestions into the discussion section!
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Against
axil2004y ago
there are only 2 biologically genders (sex) but there are multiple genders. this is because unlike sex gender is a social concept. as an example you might be born a female so you sex is female but later in life you feel nether masculine or fenmen and so you choose to identify as non-binary. another thing is there being multiple genders inent a new concept. there are many people in history who identified as non-binary, gender fluid, bi-gender, etc.. some people make the argument that "the bible doesn't say other genders only male and female". this isn't true. some newer edited versions of the bible say things agensed the lgbtq+ community but the bible foe hundreds of years talked about treating everyone fairly and in many parts of the bible it didn't say anything about gender and many people were talked about in they/them pronouns. also i know this is off topic but the bible originally did talk about gay people.
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For
keek214y ago
There are only 2 genders, there are only 2 sexes, they are very closely linked. Genders is typically more about the social stereotypes and sex is the biological situation. The idea that gender is malleable is completely false. There are typically masculine qualities and there are typically feminine qualities... and I suppose there are qualities that apply to both male and female, but still those are the only two that exist. The idea that you are not the gender that you actually are is gender dysphoria and it is a mental condition. I think that the way people are viewing gender now just proves how dangerous it can be when you let people with mental health problems choose how science works... if a schizophrenic person thought the radio was talking to them you wouldn't just nod along and tell them that the radio is trying to have a conversation with them so why is gender dysphoria any different?
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