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23 comments
Against
mlind215y ago
**A woman can wear whatever she chooses because she is *never* deserving of any sort of harassment, assault, or discrimination.**
* This opinion is terrifying for many reasons. First, it implies that rape, harassment, assault, or discrimination are consequences that arrive from bad behavior. This could not be further from the truth. No one ever deserves to be put through any of that simply because of an outfit choice. Women go outside every day in crop tops and they also go out every day fully covered and *still* will be catcalled, harassed, or even assaulted.
* Every 68 seconds, an American is sexually assaulted. [Those age 65 and older are 92% less likely than 12-24 year olds to be a victim of rape or sexual assault, and 83% less likely than 25-49 year olds](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence). The fact that children are raped speaks to the fact that revealing clothing has *nothing* to do with rape– it is the rapist’s actions that cause rape.
* [6,053 military members reported experiencing sexual assault during military service in FY 2018](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence). Military uniforms are the same for men and women, and yet there are still hundreds of instances of sexual assault, many of which go unreported. If a woman is wearing a military uniform and still gets assaulted, there is no base to the claim that a more revealing outfit would increase her chances of being attacked.
* Consequences come from mistakes or bad behavior. A woman dressing how she is comfortable is neither a mistake nor bad behavior and definitely does not deserve any sort of negative consequence.
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Turi5y ago
So well argued...
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MrStrawHat5y ago
The case isn't that women will be harrassed or sexually assaulted, the case is that there will be consequences if they dress a certain way, and I think revealing clothes will get more unwanted attention
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Linda4y ago
There will be consequences **WHATEVER** women wear, that's the problem. Not women.
[Trousers]( https://abcnews.go.com/International/sudans-lubna-hussein-convicted-wearing-trousers/story?id=8508383)
[Hijab]( https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2002/03/19/they-died-for-lack-of-a-head-scarf/86cbcc5a-6cef-49e5-b758-167527e6eed0/)
[Head-veil France]( https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/9/a-law-against-islam)
[Tight Jeans](https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/italian-court-reverses-tight-jeans-rape-ruling-26464014.html)
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Nsoper194y ago
Errr.. no. There is no mention of rape or anything like that in the opinion. You seem to be arguing for a different opinion from the one stated.
Human beings will respond differently to the way a person dresses. A uniform will provoke a different response from casual clothes and also revealing clothes will as well. That is just a fact.
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Francoislc1y ago
While you are technically right, you are somewhat disingenuously ignoring the social context around the opinion and what it means in that context.
This is a bit like saying "Well, I didn't kill her your honor, I just pushed her a little bit, I don't know what happened over the edge fo that cliff..."
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Bakr3242y ago
Ofcourse I agree women dont deserve harassment or sexual assault but ofcourse again when you wear tight clothes, crop tops, tight leggings your basically giving men their sexual desires and lust to be freed meaning if your so easy to look at and there is something to look at upon you men who grew up without learning to lower their gaze will stare at you, as a women you need ask yourself "Do I really want to be the most prettiest girl in the world even if I have a husband" like think properly dont jump into conclusions think if you had a husband and he has protective jealousy meaning he doesnt like it when men stare at you and tells you to cover will you go on a emotional rant about how "its you body and your choice" because that phrase sound as similar to saying "I like to show my tits to all men and I like to have sex with any man I want" , I myself lower my gaze to let women know im minding my own business but its society that has given you this mindset of "If I reveal myself Ill have freedom" that isnt freedom that is basically becoming a picture frame for mens desires, and mainly I myself wear a thobe (A law garment that reaches my ankles and is loose doesnt show my body figure) to show that im also covering myself and it isnt just women, I understand if women should cover than so should men and I myself do cover aswell.
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Mixed
francesca246015y ago
**The only consequences to wearing revealing clothes is possibly being cold**
- Women should wear whatever they want and makes them feel good
- Anything else is not a consequence of the clothes that a women is wearing, any harassment can not be blamed on the women in any way. It is 100% due to the offenders and their awful actions
- The only possible consequence is being cold
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Against
JenReneeGilley5y ago
**TL;DR -- Men need to accept that rape culture is the reason women can't wear revealing clothing without attracting degenerates.**
No one ever blames a man for getting raped because he was shirtless and in shorts, washing his car on a hot day. If you went up to a man and told him to put a shirt on because he could get raped, he'd likely laugh at you.
A woman similarly shouldn't have to be covered up on a hot day. The whole "women have tits so we can't show those waaah" thing is getting old and needs to be put to rest. It's not a woman's fault if a guy can't control his boner at the mere sight of breasts. That's more a reflection of a man's immaturity than a woman's risqué behavior.
It's ridiculous to claim that the clothing is the problem, when the truth is that society has trained men to ogle women, clothes or no clothes. I'm not saying that men don't get raped, but on the whole, they sure as heck don't have to worry about it every time they walk out the front door, and they can feel safe sitting in a parking lot in an unlocked vehicle whereas a woman cannot. I had to yell at my dad the other day for leaving his door unlocked with me in the car, alone and in the driver's seat, because I'm terrified of being GTA'd right the %&$@ out of there. And the car wouldn't be the target, because the car is a cheap piece of crap. Yes, I could have just locked the door myself (and I did), but my point is that men don't ever think of these things unless something bad has already specifically happened to *them*. I've never been raped, but I know the possibility is all too real because I'm small and I'm a woman.
But I digress. Men can wear all the revealing clothing they want, but women have to suffer through layers of hot clothing because, as my mom always says, "a stiff dick knows no conscience."
Well, men, it's time to grow a conscience, and quit blaming women for your inability to keep Little Willy at bay.
"But waah, I see boobs and I can't help it, it's biology! I can't control it if I get a boner, so it's your fault for showing me boobs!" Yes, totally our fault for having these annoying, heavy burdens on our chest that cause more social and physical trouble than they're worth. We totally want to show them off because they're just oodles of fun to have, causing back pain and attracting stiffys we don't want. It's totally not biology that we have these pointless things attached to us, and we can't help that we have them, but damn it, it's 98 degrees out and by God I'm not about to have a heat stroke just because *your* biology exists.
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For
Sg915y ago
The question never said anything about rape. It just said consequences.
Consequence could be a sideways glance from others, getting cold if the weather turns or feeling more confident in ones self, not all consequences are bad.
That said, yeah, people are going to look and make comments and throw the occasional compliment. You can't tell me that there aren't women out there who wear revealing clothes for this exact reason.
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Mixed
based_person5y ago
That's a very charged way to phrase that, and thus people are arguing against more than what is being said. But let's make the case against the emotional reaction everyone is feeling when reading that.
Disclaimer: Bear in mind that people are ultimately individuals who may have developed learned behavior that can "overwrite" their natural tendencies, and that is not necessarily wrong (in many cases, it can be good).
You've probably heard the line from feminists that "there's nothing sexual about the female form".
This is scientifically false. Humans have evolved to be very sexual creatures who are biologically wired to view physical features in a sexual context.
While females have also evolved to recognize sexual attractiveness in the male form, this is further-removed from their evaluation of potential mates. This is because the correlation between being physically strong & being able to provide for a mate is further-removed (from our present society) than the correlation between having healthy/sexually attractive bodies & the ability to birth healthy children.
While it is surely not a bad thing to oppose sexual assault, we must also bear in mind that the driving-force behind sexual assault is an evolutionary trait, and that the notion that sexual assault is wrong is a learned trait that contradicts the natural evolved ones.
Therefore, while we obviously ought oppose sexual assault, it is unreasonable to assert that males ought not notice sexual features that are highlighted by certain attire choices.
Coupled with the reality that laws do not prevent crime, it is only responsible to acknowledge that attire choices may change the behavior of others in serious ways, even if you and I agree it'd be better if they didn't.
It is similar to counting hundred-dollar bills in a dark urban alley at night.
*Should* you be able to do so safely in a "perfect" world? Yes. But we've already established that theft and sexual assault are things you're not allowed to do by law...yet people do them.
Getting outraged at the fact that one exposes themselves to danger with these behaviors does not accomplish anything; and refusing to acknowledge the unsavory realities of the world only serves to subject more people to the theft & sexual assault that we both agree is bad.
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JenReneeGilley5y ago
A well-done argument! You are, indeed, based.
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Commentary
bookworm6244y ago
TLDR: Would you say that any other violent crime is really the victim's fault?
I'm not going to dance around this question; we all know what it's really asking, so I'll go with it.
My philosophy professor made a great point about this topic today in class. He gave this example:
Let's say you belong to a very rich family, and every night you walk around outside (maybe to a party, maybe to home, wherever) with all your money in your pockets and all your expensive jewelry on. You do it because it helps you feel more confident, but your rich family always tells you it's irresponsible. One night, someone mugs you and takes all your money. Your family yells at you, telling you you should have been more responsible and stayed inside; that way, you wouldn't have been mugged. In their words, "it's your own fault you were attacked that night." The next day you report it, and the only thing the cops care about is whether you were wearing the jewelry that was stolen or showing off your money; if you were enticing anyone to attack you in any way. They then interrogate your family, and your spouse says they knew the whole time it was going to happen, and thus you're really the one at fault for "showing off."
You're lucky enough that they found the mugger easily, and he confesses to doing it. "But you see," he protests, "I wanted the money, and I could tell they wanted me to have it. Even though they kept saying 'no, get away from me' as I stole it from them, I could tell through their actions that they really wanted me to have it. They were basically asking for it!"
Is that event your fault?
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For
Nsoper194y ago
Of course there are consequences. Pretty much every action in this universe has a consequence.
If I leave my house unlocked with loads of valuable goods on display, one potential consequence will be that my stuff is stolen. Doesn't make it right, but that is a natural consequence.
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Against
Debate_4_fun9814y ago
Women ARE aware there are consequences for wearing revealing clothing. One of these consequences could be by wearing clothing, that accentuates them sexually, that they might receive more attention from men and women, and that they may include men who are mildly, or greatly aroused and attracted by the way they are dressing. Women are very aware of this.
For instance: I remember going to a "Singles Night" many years ago. I was watching a huddle of young women sitting at a table, chatting amongst themselves, while waiting for men to approach.
One young woman announced to the group: "I'm going to go for it!" (she meant, quite clearly, she was going to increase her attractiveness and make it easier for a guy to approach, to see if she could attract someone). Because she then stood up and removed a baggy top covering her torso, to reveal a very low plunging neckline, showing lots of cleavage/breast. She then went to the bar by herself. (I would guess going to the bar on her own, would make it easier for a single man to approach her. Sitting in a group, would mean a man would have to be especially confident to approach her.)
In the above example, the point I am making is that women are very aware that the way they dress will attract increased attention.
I think most women are aware in the same way. I would go so far as to say, most women are very aware they could easily attract more attention from men, by changing the way they dress.
However, it is altogether a different thing to say that a woman should be aware she might be raped or assaulted because of the way she dresses.
Let’s put the shoe on the other foot, as we say in the UK, to see what it looks like over there:
If a man has a really big penis, he can emphasize this and make it obvious, by wearing a tight pair of trousers. I know a guy who is very well endowed and when he wears a tight pair of trousers, sometimes, women will start to laugh and catch his eye, while also eyeing his bulge, while making jokes to their female friends about him. Also I have seen women who take sly glances at his bulge.
He is very aware that this occasionally happens when he puts on a pair of tight trousers.
My point is: in the above example, if one of these woman were to come up and grab his bulge based on her interest, would we say: “He was asking for it”? No! We would call it wrong.
Within the law a man and a woman can dress how they like, without being touched, assaulted or insulted. The consequences of not doing so, should be charges of indecent exposure at the very most.
Most men have a self-imposed filter, where we can shut off our sexual desire/ interest. My point is we filter/over rule immediately fulfilling our desire. We all do this when we desire something. We can only have it when it is appropriate. If we can’t do this, we have a problem which should be and will be, dealt with by the law.
I think there is an argument, on this subject, that compares women dressing in particular ways to being equivalent to wearing jewels in a dark alley. Well women are already aware, that dressing in particular ways will increase attention and are aware some of this attention may be on the pushy side.
It takes premeditation to wait in a dark alley. A person just doesn’t find themselves in one. The person waiting in a dark alley is premeditating a crime.
My point here, men generally don’t try and rape women in public, they wait until they are alone. This means they have the capacity for controlling themselves until the time is right. So they have the control. They are not suddenly overcome by lust and rape women. Men that rape are usually just choosing not to exercise the control. So this idea that men are suddenly overcome by natural instincts as in when a starving man, sees a plate of food etc., just doesn’t hold up. This argument supports “rape culture” because it gives a man a get out clause for his actions.
So my position is: Women are aware there are consequences in terms of increased attention due to the way they dress. But men need to be aware, that the way a woman (or man) dresses is not cause or any justification, for any form of sexual insult, or attack. To think otherwise is being part of “rape culture”.
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Nsoper194y ago
Not sure why you label your comment as an "against" ? Seems like your reasoning very much show support for the opinion here?
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Debate_4_fun9814y ago
Because the opening statement suggests that women need to change. They do not need to change their awareness they already have it.
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Nsoper194y ago
Hmm I don't read it that way? The opinion only suggests they need to accept this is true and not to change anything as such? Maybe just semantic differences
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Debate_4_fun9814y ago
I see your point but I don't agree. The word "need" implies that there is something not right presently, that needs to change. To me the focus of the opinion is therefore: what women are not accepting.
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For
Aubrey15553y ago
If a girl goes out looking like a slut with her butt and boobs hanging out. You are asking for something to happen. And I don’t like the term asking for it cuz your not encouraging it and saying you want it. But if you go out looking like a slut and you get SA they the girl is very responsible for it. The guy is also very responsible and was the attacker. The girl showed off her body in inappropriate ways and it was a huge cause of what happened. If the girl wears shorts that cover and a baggy shirt. It covers and a guys first thought won’t be “damn I’d love to fuck that” if you dress like a slut then guys are going to think that. If you cover your body then guys would most likely think that your really pretty and later then think it would be fun to fuck cuz you look nice. Think of it like money. If you find a dollar bill on the ground you’ll think yay! Money and take it but not be to excited about it cuz it doesn’t have a huge quantity. But if you find a $100 bill on the ground your going to take it right away cuz of how pricey this world is. You’ll be excited and think of how you will spend it. You don’t think like that with the one dollar. If a girls shows her whole body guys are going to think of what they would do and maybe act on it. Yes it is very wrong and it’s not giving consent to have sex. However you shouldn’t wear clothes that show everything because you are encouraging the behavior!
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Turi3y ago
I think this point has been made higher up, with slightly less offensive language!
Do check out our [Guidelines](https://www.parlia.com/article/rules-of-parlia)!
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izzynokizzy2y ago
Wow what a tasteless take. It's never the victim's fault. That's like saying "it's his fault he got murdered, he upset the person." Just because whatever you're doing could be provocative to someone doesn't mean it's your fault it happened. I could drink alcohol around an alcoholic which provokes them to drink again but if I don't know they're an alcoholic then it's not my fault they relapsed. I could wear a tight dress around a sex addict which may provoke them to rape me but I can't know that random guy is a sex addict. It's not asking for anything. I should be able to be comfortable in my own skin. I shouldn't have to cover up because a guy may want to rape me. Men don't have to put their shirts on because a girl may want to rape them. It doesn't matter what I wore out of the house it's never an excuse for a man to touch me without my consent. Someone will be sexually attracted to anything. Everyone has preferences so even if I walk out of the house in a baggy sweater and some shorts, I could still get raped just because I'm a woman that's 5'1 I'm easy to dominate. It's not about the clothes. It's about what's between my legs.
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Against
izzynokizzy2y ago
TL;DR: Women should be able to wear whatever they want. If a man decides to act on his desires without her consent that's not her fault. And sexiness is subjective.
I really don't like this subject, everyone thinks differently. But some people are disgusting. I saw arguments saying that women are "asking for it" by dressing provocatively. But the thing is, no one asks to be raped. I'll let you in on a secret. Most women do dress provocatively for attention. But why does that have to be a bad thing? Doesn't everyone want compliments? But that should be where it ends. Women are not objects and neither are men.
If a man is tempted to touch a woman that is not her fault. That's his problem. And if he chooses to act on it then it's also his fault. This argument also depends on what you consider provocative. Some people think some leggings and a t-shirt are provocative. Some may even think a baggy hoodie and some shorts is provocative. Everyone interprets sexy differently. So while one man may find a sheer dress sexy another man may not like it. One man may think a sundress is quite modest while another may find it knee-jellifying. We can't dress for every man. We can't account for every part of the male population because all men are different from each other.
We are not living in 1920. Times have changed and women are empowered. Men cannot control us anymore. That's the whole thing with us wearing sexy clothes. Throughout history, men have told us what's acceptable for us to wear. Not anymore.
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