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https://www.parlia.com/o/does-god-exist-2

16 comments

For
LeeAnn5y ago
**TL;DR – The existence of an all-perfect God is one of the most fascinating and controversial arguments of all time and a big reason we grapple with it is because we are finite beings. What's more, there is indeed undeniable evidence to prove that God does exist and it has nothing to do with religion as we have come to know it today.** Questioning God's existence stems from this desire of us wanting to be sure that a spiritual being is real and that *He* actually exists. Even William Lane Craig who writes for [the website www.reasonablefaith.org]( https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/existence-nature-of-god/does-god-exist/), confirms this when he informs us that asking this question is one of the most important questions any person can consider. Especially, since a person's belief in God’s existence hugely influences how they view life, humanity, morality and destiny. Furthermore, Dr. Craig demonstrates the reasonableness of believing that God does exist through presenting five strong arguments for *His* existence, namely: God makes sense of the origin of the universe, God makes sense of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life, God makes sense of objective moral values in the world, God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus and God can be immediately known and experienced – which represent but a few of the validations to God's existence. Alvin Plantinga, one of the world's leading philosophers, has also laid out some more arguments for God's existence. In addition, [ample evidence of God’s existence can also be found overlapping in the following two articles, with the first one discussing six straightforward reasons to his existence, namely]( https://www.everystudent.com/features/is-there-a-god.html): the complexity of our planet, the origin of the universe, the universe operates by uniform laws of nature, our DNA is divinely programmed, his pursuit of us and lastly that the revelation of Jesus is the clearest, most specific proof of God revealing himself to us. [While the second article looks at the following arguments as proofs which confirm God’s existence, namely]( https://lifewayvoices.com/bible-theology/does-god-exist/): the cause argument, the design argument and the moral argument (also mentioning Pascal’s wager as an added bonus). Accordingly then, the most apparent evidence of God's existence is that: humans are not responsible for the creation of the universe (for obvious reasons) and [God who is infinite and has limitless powers](https://www.gotquestions.org/infinite-God.html) is the only one that is responsible for creating us – and everything else. As a result, it would seem as though the main reason this debate still (and will) continue for a lot of people is because of this – our difficulty in grappling with and fully trying to comprehend the existence of only one God and that *He* is so all powerful and all-consuming. So throughout history, the various arguments regarding the existence of God have taken on different forms (for, against, mixed) and are based on different foundations. Yet, despite this *there is one shared consensus among these arguments: that a higher power does indeed exist.* Although, I do believe that the most obscure reason why we cannot find and produce *direct tangible evidence* that God exists is because society and us as human beings have grown away (apart) from *Him*. Consequently, very few of us understand what it means to be truly religious and spiritual. Our biggest flaw then, concerning religion (and spirituality) is how we perceive it in relation to God because we in fact see both – especially religion, as a separate entity to God. That is to say, we actually don't see religion as (a) part of God. More specifically, when we talk about religion, we talk about it and then mention God in it. I mean, if we were truly talking about religion (as God taught it to us in the very beginning) then we would be talking about *Him* and not religion. What’s natural is first God and then everything else follows after that. So religion follows after God – because even though religion is part of God, religion is not God. God is religion. Ultimately, I think that as much as Christian theism, as we have come to know it (over time) is an acceptable worldview which commits itself to the thoughtful consideration of every rational human being, we shouldn't try so hard to put God in a box when attempting to understand (or explain) *Him* – because as finite beings we won't be able to. He is what he is. He is God. Or in his own words, "I am that I am."
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> "How then, can we still question if God or a higher power (if you’re from a different culture or belief) really exists? If man does all of these things, does it not stand to reason that there has to be a higher power?" To be fair, humans do a *lot* of things that seem to lack a solid, logical reasoning behind them. Take, for example, a person who is diagnosed with clinical OCD: This particular individual has a compulsive *need* to count the letters in every sentence they read. There is no *reason* they need to repeatedly perform this action, and there is no consequence for not doing it. But this person can't rest until the task is complete -- all they know is that it *has* to be done, and that there is some mysterious driving force compelling them to do it. Let's go back, then, to religious practices and rituals: Humans don't have a logical reason behind performing these tasks, other than feeling compelled to do them by, or in honor of, a higher power. So this, in itself, does not prove that God exists -- it only proves that these people are experiencing a compulsion to perform certain tasks. More often than not, their behavior is the result of a subconscious fear of what will happen if they *don't* perform these tasks -- "If I don't sacrifice this lamb to God, I will not go to Heaven, and will be cast into the fires of Hell to suffer for all eternity." Or, to give the benefit of the doubt, I do believe that there are many religious folk who don't operate on fear -- they earnestly feel a connection to what they perceive and trust is a higher power, and see that higher power as a positive presence in their lives. And -- if you free yourself from the notion that things have to be tangible to be real -- it does seem to make reasonable sense: "If God didn't exist, why would I *feel* His presence / have these dreams / etc.? Why would things happen the way they do without some grand design to lay out all the things that destiny says will happen?" It's a romantic and attractive notion, which is a source of comfort and security for some, and a fascinating mystery to others. For many people, the existence of God is enough of an answer, and that satisfies them. Some religious people don't have to think more about it than that -- "God exists, and that's all I need to know." Others thrive on delving deeper into the philosophy of their religion, and trying to comprehend / unravel the mysteries of their god's actions. In either case, it all boils down to people finding *personal* reasons for believing / doing things -- and just because an individual *feels* something, does not make their feelings indisputable evidence which can be tangibly verified by scientific means. So, insofar as being able to prove that God exists, there is no such earthly measure that can be used -- people only have "feelings" and "faith" to operate on. Some might argue that the Bible is tangible evidence -- but even the Bible itself cites that it was written by many different -- human -- hands. Could they have transcribed divine words which came directly from God's mouth? Maybe. But no one can prove that such an event historically took place. ... All that being said, I do believe in God -- but I recognize that He didn't put much in the way of physical evidence here on Earth to prove His existence. I also believe He did that on purpose, so that His followers would have to walk with Him on faith alone. It's a lofty task, and it requires that believers endure many obstacles and hardships which will test their faith -- but it's a walk that many are thrilled and content to make.
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Against
sanjana5y ago
More often than not, the existence of God has been attributed to unexplainable circumstances. In ancient times, thunderstorms and natural disasters were believed the be caused by God to showcase his wrath on the world. Today, we have a scientific explanation for natural disasters and thunderstorms and have discredited to an extent God’s hand behind these common phenomenons. In the modern-day, we continue to have inexplicable concepts, ideals, and circumstances that challenge us to a point where we are forced to believe that it is all God’s doing. God is the answer to all questions we cannot prove yet. One of the most encouraging arguments towards justifying that God does not exist is, is the existence of evil. Evil comes in many forms and ways and is harmful to a range of individuals. If God existed, why do spontaneous miscarriages happen, and why did an atrocity like the Holocaust occur? How is it that evil is allowed to spread its malicious wings and light fire to whatever it sees fit if God exists? If the Allied had not won the war, would Jews have been decimated and eliminated forever? Also, if God exists, then there is no free will, for they cannot coexist. If God exists, then all of the things that have happened in the universe’s history were predetermined and planned for a reason. So, if they were happening for a reason, evil should have never been a part of that reason. The universe should have been a cradle of euphoria. If we look to philosophers for an explanation, most of them fall short. They create logical necessities, leaving no room for a falsifiable argument, which in itself is a weak argument. An example of this is Descartes’ argument for God’s existence through an analogy of triangularity. Triangularity is used as a concept in Descartes’s Fifth Meditation. The essence of a triangle is such that even if it never existed, it is still about something. Its essence is true and immutable in nature. The triangle is not created by anybody and is indisputable by nature and never changing. A triangle cannot merge into anything else, so it is forever rigid. Just like triangularity, there is goodness. This Goodness has a true and immutable nature, even if God does not exist. The essence of a triangle is that it has three sides, and God’s essence is ‘what must be.’ The only essence of instantiation of a God is existence, and God is ‘that which must be.’ Everything else, other than God’s existence, just like everything else other than triangularity, is up to debate. This essence of a triangle or its triangularity contributes in a way that provides an existential necessity for God’s existence. Just like the three sides of a triangle, God’s existence is an inherent necessity in which its very being is a necessity. So, God is an exception to the concept of essence. One has to describe the properties that make up its essence before knowing or justifying its existence. However, in Descartes’s view, the essence itself is His existence. Like the universe, which could have never failed to exist (temporal and spatial facts), His existence is a necessity and not just a possibility, which is quite a weak argument. In layman’s terms, Descartes is saying that God exists. Period. There is no evidence. In fact, the whole argument, the premise, and the conclusion are the same. This provides an extremely dubious argument that is unfalsifiable and absurd. Descartes does not allow for counterarguments or counterexamples. Descartes believes that his premise is true because even if one premise is false, the conclusion has to be false. In the Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Hume uses the copy thesis to justify how our behavior and ideas stem from already existing concepts and things. For example, Hume explains that although the human mind is limitless and can conceive anything it wants to, the foundational conceptions come from a narrow stream of ideas already familiar with us. “That all this creative power of the mind amounts merely to the ability to combine, transpose, enlarge, or shrink the materials that the senses and experience provide us with. When we think of a golden mountain, we only join two consistent ideas—gold and mountain—with which we were already familiar.” (Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, 8) His first argument to prove this is the idea of God. Hume states that we portray and understand God’s existence to be one of an “an infinitely intelligent, wise, and good Being” (Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, 8). However, this is not a new concept or an unfamiliar one. Intelligence, wisdom, and goodness are all qualities that have some sort of perception in our minds, so all we do for the creation of God is stretch those qualities to unfathomable lengths to create this Supreme Being. God is an idea. It is a creation of already existing qualities and has been used for self-serving purposes. History has proven time and again that God is one of the most decisive factors that has caused war, cruelty, forceful conversions from one religion to another, and spearheaded imperialism. “Christianity was one justification that European powers used to colonize and exploit Africa. Through the dissemination of Christian doctrine, European nations such as Great Britain, France, and the Netherlands sought to educate and reform African culture.” (A History of Africa) God has often been used as an excuse to exploit and brainwash innocents into thinking that there is a savior for their troubles. Slavery was one of the concepts and practices that went directly against the word of God. From the beginning of the book, Cugoano’s point of view is clear - slavery is an act against God and His natural laws. Cugoano rightfully believed that enslaving a human being is a disgrace to Christianity and an act of evil that strays oneself further away from God and virtue. From the very foundational aspects of his arguments, Cugoano begins to formulate his idea of natural liberty. “No necessity, or any situation of men… can warrant them to rob others because they are poor or wretched. But the robbers of men and slave-owners who take away the common rights and privileges of others… is the worst kind of robbery as most opposite of every injunction of the Divine law.” Here, Cugoano’s foundational argument states that it is against the Divine law for a man to be enslaved because every man has entitled to his freedom and free will, no matter the state of their lifestyle. All of this being said, there is no proof that God exists at the end of the day. However, there is very little proof that God does not exist either. I am a Hindu myself and believe in God. However, after reading philosophical arguments and learning some of history’s most terrible aspects, I doubt God’s logical and scientific existence. However, God is a concept that may never be proven or disproved, so I choose to believe my experiences and listen to how I feel in temples. Sources Delany, C. C. J. M. R., WEB, C. A. D. F. D., & Bois, D. (2003). Quobna Ottobah Cugoano 29 34 40 44 48:(1757–?). In Pan-African History (pp. 38-40). Routledge Nolan, L. (2001). Descartes’ Ontological Argument. Editors, S. (2020). Summary An Essay Concerning Human Understanding. https://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/johnlocke/section1/. Leibniz, G. W., Latta, R., Loptson, P., Montgomery, G. R., Leibniz, G. W., & Leibniz, G. W. (2012). Discourse on metaphysics and other writings: Discourse on metaphysics, The principles of nature and of grace, The monadology. Broadview Press. Look, B. C. (2013, February 8). Leibniz's Modal Metaphysics. Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz-modal/. Look, B. C. (2013, July 24). Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz. Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz/. Murray, M. J., & Greenberg, S. (2013, February 27). Leibniz on the Problem of Evil. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz-evil/.
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Against
There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of God. Things in the Bible, like Noah’s Ark, is completely illogical, and nearly impossible.
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Commentary
Such a god might exist but that doesn't make me want to join any religion.
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For
I believe that God is real. So I'm a Christian, was raised in a Christian home, and still have that same faith today. I'm pretty young and this is one of my first debates so don't judge too harshly. If you are not familiar with the creation story in Genesis Chapters 1-3, it talks about how God created the universe, everything in it, and man and woman. He made them and put them in the Garden of Eden. Then God told them that if they ate from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they would surly die. After that, the fallen angel, or Satan, who took the form of a serpent deceived the woman into eating the fruit. The man ate from the tree shortly afterward and first humans had sinned. After that God kicked them out of the Garden of Eden and eventually they died. That's just a back story for the arguments that I will try to counter. The first one being that if there is a God, then why do bad things happen (War, abuse, murder, etc.)? Throughtout my life different people have told me different things but I'm going to say what i think. God is a good, perfect, just, holy, sinless being. He always has been and always will be. The reason there are bad things in the world is because of us. God never created sin. He gave us freewill, which in part we decided poorly. He gave us freewill because if He didn't, then we would be like mindless computers following the code somebody wrote. You can say, "Well He created the thing that lead to sin". But He didn't create it for the intention of things going down hill. Another thing is that God created Satan, and Satan is evil, so that means Go can't exist because God is perfect. Again, God created an angle whom He gave freewill, and the angle decided against God. There are a lot of other arguments to there, and I don;t have time to go through them all. But if you don't belive that there is a God, but you are open to believe there is, you should check out Lee Strobles story. He wrote the bok called, "The Case for Christ". It's also a movie, so if you don't like books you can watch the movie.
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Turi5y ago
Thanks for sharing. Here's the ['God / Evil in the world'](https://www.parlia.com/o/god-cant-exist-with-evil-in-world) argument you were mentioning...
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willwebb4y ago
It feels like you are doing gymnastics to move the blame away from God. If God is good, all powerful and all knowing, then he COULD have created us free from sin. If the reason things are bad is because of us, then the reason things are bad are because of God, if he is all powerful. The idea that God gave us free will contradicts itself if you believe God is all-knowing. We have free will, but he already knows everything we are going to choose? God created us knowing every sin we will make, and in every way we will suffer. His intention is irrelevant - he knows he is going to make us suffer and chooses not to do anything about it. To fall back on humans having free will is to either rid God of being good, or all powerful, or all knowing. If you remove one of these, the free will argument works better but a good Christian will not want to admit this.
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Nsoper194y ago
It's almost as though God is bigger and more complex than a human...?
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willwebb4y ago
Yes, God is supposedly big and powerful yet chooses to ignore suffering despite also being described as compassionate. I am not sure your point here? Are you saying he is bigger and more complex than a human as a way of saying we will never understand his reasoning? Because that is just as bad as saying "God works in mysterious ways" to run away from any counterargument. If you meant something else, then please elaborate.
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Nsoper194y ago
Sorry pal, too many false axioms in your argument to even begin a response ;-)
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willwebb4y ago
The fact you refuse to respond says a lot. You could always point out where I am wrong, or have said anything false. We are all here to learn and discuss opinions, no?
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Nsoper194y ago
You assumed my argument before I even said anything and then straw-manned. So I'm not going to respond to a straw man response to an argument I never made :-)
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willwebb4y ago
how so? I asked if this what you were saying, and if not, then to please elaborate on your point? You are not coming across very honest. Please respond to the comment, or stop replying.
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Nsoper194y ago
That's not what I was saying, just that if God exists he is bigger and more complex than a human. That's all. Then you started going off on one lol.
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willwebb4y ago
And what was the relevance of that? I am trying to get you to elaborate on whatever point you are trying to make. I “went off on one” because I wanted to understand your point and have a discussion.
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