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22 comments

For
Equality is the starting-point. Equity is a step further and is the basis for freedom.
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How exactly? My understanding of equity is an equality of outcome in which case everything before is controlled by an authority figure, which is the exact opposite of freedom
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keek214y ago
Equity would require the exact opposite of freedom. In the most free societies you see a larger disparity between the behaviours of certain groups. This evidence would suggest that for a community to achieve equity it would require extreme authoritarian rule and mass oppression.
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Against
Sg915y ago
Equity requires unfair and preferential treatment of certain groups over others. It looks at group identities rather than individuals. In a work setting, the best person should always get the job regardless of whether or not this leads to a workplace full of black/white people, men/women, gay/straight people or not.
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Against
MsR02345y ago
The end result doesn't matter so long as people are treated equally and given equal opportunities. Pursuit of equity involves discrimination
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Against
Equity only makes sense if you refuse to acknowledge that people are anything more than the prejudiced assumptions you attach to their physical characteristics. It is synonymous with racism, sexism, or whatever other term describing a discriminatory perspective is appropriate for the context.
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For
epalmer5y ago
**The answer lies in whether you believe everyone deserves equality of outcome.** Equality and equity are _methods_ of achieving an outcome. Equality means each individual is provided with the exact same resources or opportunties as everyone else, whereas equity recognises that in order to reach a truly equal outcome, some individuals have additional needs which means they might need something which another individual may not. If we all started from the exact same playing field and were given the same resources and opportunities, we would have an equal and just outcome. However, in reality each of us have various unique setbacks which some others may not have that require some extra support. There is equity already existing in many aspects of society such as grants for high achieving economically disadvantaged children or for people with a disability. Practically, there are often not enough resources or opportunities to offer to everyone, so to advocate for equality over equity in many cases people would be forced to take an 'all or nothing' approach and refuse many opportunities and resources which could have been of great help to those who desperately needed them, yet may have made little difference to others. To say 'the end result doesn't matter so long as people are treated equally' is contradictory- _why advocate for a method of equality if it doesn't result in equality?_ It is discriminatory to disregard these differences and allow society's inequalities to continue with no support or recognition. In a working society some level of positive discrimination may be necessary to discern who is in need and who is not.
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Disgree, I think discrimination is wrong regardless of intention
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epalmer5y ago
Discrimination can simply mean: "Recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another. - "discrimination between right and wrong" Similar: differentiation, distinction, telling the difference - the ability to judge what is of high quality; good judgement or taste. " -_Oxford Languages Definition_ [source](https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/) We do this every single day of our lives. It is a necessary practice in many situations, particulary in the example given: to determine right from wrong.
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" 'The end result doesn't matter so long as people are treated equally' is contradictory" No it isn't. If Usain Bolt were to win a race against me then I'd just argue it's biased against me, should we hamper him in some way so that we both finish at the same time? That would be an equality of outcome. If I'm given the same training plan and diet as him he'd still crush me, but we are treated equally. How is it fair to him to be held back just because I can't keep up? I can just find another subject in which I'm naturally better than him at.
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epalmer5y ago
It is absolutely contradictory to pretend to care about equality, but then say the resulting inequalities ‘don’t matter’. The aim of a race is not to finish equally. It is a competition. That is a terrible analogy. We should not treat life like a race; perhaps some people like yourself are, which is fundamentally where things are going wrong. Further, equity would in no means hold anyone back, only accelerate those unjustly left behind. I’m glad you brought that up as I think it’s one of the main misconceptions.
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Of course life is like a race, capitalism is bred on competition. People are by nature not equal, it's silly to try and pretend everyone can be equally good at everything. Some people are naturally more intelligent than others which no amount of education can balance, what is your solution for that? And how are you going to discriminate between those who need extra help and those who don't? Based on race? Gender? Height? Sexual identity? Intelligence? How far does it go?
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epalmer5y ago
Precisely why I’m not a fan of capitalism. And why I said we ‘should not’ treat life like a race, but that some people still do. My version of equity would focus more on alleviating inequalities caused by capitalism/the system, for example socio-economic factors: gender, race, class inequalities etc. None of these inequalities are ‘natural’. They are a product of a system designed to breed inequality, designed to be a competition as you rightly stated. That it exactly what I disagree with and what equity would attempt to alleviate.
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How are gender and race inequalities unnatural?
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epalmer5y ago
There’s no natural reason why certain genders or races should face inequality in factors such as significantly different rates of unemployment, education or incarceration etc. I’m not talking about whether race/gender is a natural characteristic or whether it is social construct. That’s a different argument. I’m saying the _inequalities_ generated have no natural foundation, they are the results of a racist and patriarchal system and a society that is unfortunately designed for certain people to succeed and not others, which is why they may need and _deserve_ extra support in some areas to alleviate unjust and unnatural hinderances.
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I'd say the capitalist system isn't designed at all, it's allowing people the freedom to choose any career path they wish. Any inequalities which are generated would be due to a lack of qualities which are unwelcome in any system, like poor timekeeping, bad work ethic, etc. Perceived inequalities, such as 'why aren't there more women CEO's' is the results of a lack of suitable candidates. What support would you actually give them other than education? How would you differentiate who needs support and who doesn't? Would it be based on race or gender or based on the individual? What's the plan?
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Drew5y ago
Hope you don't object to an interjection? How do you apply this logic to many sports where handicap systems are in place in order to compensate for differences in expenditure/weight/experience/age etc?
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I wouldn't define that as equity as there is still not an equality of outcome. There's still a clear winner and loser
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Commentary
**Is equity the solution to societal imbalance or a form of racism?** • [Equality](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/equality/#DefiConc), in the context of social justice, is the principle that everybody deserves the same treatment and opportunities. It is generally celebrated as a societal ideal, and many believe that we should all strive for equality. Many acknowledge that our world is not equal, and certain groups of people are discriminated against or less privileged than others, often for reasons of race, class, wealth, gender, or sexual orientation. • The concept of equity follows from this acknowledgement and aims to level out societal imbalance by giving less privileged groups more resources or opportunities than more privileged groups. Equity stems from ideas of justice. This is explained very clearly using images in an article from [Cultural Organizing](https://culturalorganizing.org/the-problem-with-that-equity-vs-equality-graphic/). • Many argue that in order to make society more equal, practicing equity is more important than practicing equality. Unlike equality, equity takes [systemic inequality](https://www.aecf.org/blog/racial-justice-definitions) into account which many believe is vital in striving towards a world without societal bias or imbalance. • Others argue that equity is unfair, as it prioritises certain people over others. Some also suggest that equity reduces people down to their race or ethnicity – some go as far as to say that this treatment of specific racial groups, even with anti-racist intentions, is [a form of racism](https://pacificlegal.org/moving-from-equality-to-equity-unconstitutional-hurts-minorities/) itself and is therefore damaging.
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Mixed
katie1265y ago
**Whether equity or equality is best is dependent on the situation and whether you believe in equality of outcome or equality of opportunity.** • [Equity](https://www.difference101.com/equity-vs-equality/#comparing-equity-and-equality-side-by-side) refers to impartiality and fairness; it is a needs-based approach where everyone is provided with the resources required by them for being successful. • [Equality](https://www.difference101.com/equity-vs-equality/#comparing-equity-and-equality-side-by-side) refers to equally distributing the available resources without considering individual needs. • When looking for long-term solutions, equity can be viewed as a starting point to achieve equality. In this sense, equity is a process and equality are an outcome. • Ultimately, equality should be something society strives for but equity might be a fairer way of achieving this as equality could create unfair opportunities for achieving success. • However, it is also important to note that a symptom of equity is prejudice – fundamentally it involves treating people differently and racism and sexism could become a factor when deciding who and what social groups should get these opportunities over others.
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Against
Messer4y ago
Equity revolves around the idea everyone is entitled to the same level of treatment. Equality revolves around giving everyone the same chances. Equity encourages everyone to work to the minimum standard. Equality encourages meritocracy, success through hard work, knowledge, intelligence, strength, etc. Equity would see talentless garage bands given the same treatment as mozart. Equality would see the same garage band able to reach a similar level, should they put in the work.
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Against
keek214y ago
I don't agree with equity on the basis that it fights sexism with more sexism, racism with more racism, transphobia and homophobia with heterophobia (or whatever you would call the oppression of straight people). If you truly wanted fairness then you'd treat everyone equally (equality). There is also the evidence that shows that the freer a society is the more disparity there is between groups. This would suggest that for equity to be present you would need to be in an extremely authoritarian state and most likely have to experience a lot of oppression, and I don't like that idea.
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